In Reply To Mr Quinn...
Despite SAFC not having a game this weekend, our chairman Niall Quinn has had alot to say for himself recently regarding attendances, fans, etc. Roker Report's very own Michael Graham weighs in on the latest statements from our leader...
Niall Quinn has really developed a taste for statistics these days. Indeed, it is tough to even go anywhere near a newspaper, be it online or on paper, without our chairman using numbers as a stick to beat his adversaries with. His adversaries, in this case, being Sunderland fans who he believes ‘choose’ to watch Sunderland home games illegally in local pubs with what he presumably believes is an unholy amount of alcohol passing their lips rather than in person at the Stadium of Light. Now let me get this disclaimer out of the way immediately because, amongst Sunderland fans, discussing Niall Quinn without offering almost obligatory blanket praise is a risky endeavour. I think it is clear that we have an almost immeasurable amount to be eternally thankful to Quinn for and I have personally hailed his achievements and leadership on these pages before. I also think it cannot possibly be doubted that everything he does, he does it with the best interests of Sunderland AFC at heart. That earns him leeway, and a hell of a lot of it, but not a sufficient amount to be allowed the luxury of dragging the good name that Sunderland fans have EARNED through years of loyalty (and far in excess of what the club deserved for most of them) through the mud so publicly and relentlessly without being held accountable for it.
Yes, we know that he always insists upon insisting that he would never have a bad word to say about fans who regularly attend the Stadium of Light and those who would but for financial constraints, but when we picked up a paper two weeks ago, what was the headline that we were hit with? "Quinn "despises" Sunderland fans". Cheers Niall. It would be bad enough if only the Sunderland fans saw it, but at least we would then have the interest to read on and ascertain the context. Could we say the same for the rest of the people who see it? All they were likely to see was the headline, which didn’t make for flattering reading. Scaremongering and threats to "consider his role" have since ensued, to the further delight of the headline writers, and now we are being told if it doesn’t change it "may be the end of his vision". No prizes for guessing which part of that extensive interview the headline writers picked up on that one. Speaking on The Three Legends Real Radio programme earlier this week, Quinn said he had chosen his strong words very carefully to provoke debate. Well he certainly grabbed himself and his argument some attention but, since he achieved that by disparaging his own loyal fans, I am not sure the ends really justify the means in this particular case.
But, nevertheless, Quinn wants debate. It just so happens that I love a debate, so, once I got past the manner of its delivery, I started to look at the actual argument itself. As a starting point to illustrate the need for urgency and heavy-handed action, Quinn quotes two figures; an average attendance of "44,000" in 2007/2008, which he claims has fallen to "about 38,000" this season. These figures are inaccurate. A quick check on the Official website of the Premier League and we learn that it was 43,344 in 2007/8 down to 39,351 at this moment in time. A difference of less than 4000 - not the 6000 that Quinn claims. Still it is worthy of further examination, I am prepared to concede, given the level of investment and the improving league performance of the club, so I had a look to see how our drop in crowds compares to other Premier League clubs in the same period.
What is apparent is slightly dwindling numbers is not uncommon in the Premier League and not something unique to Sunderland, which must surely begs the question as to why is the Sunderland chairman alone laying the blame at the apathy of his club’s fans? I am no economist, but it does not seem a stretch to believe that either directly or indirectly, the vast majority of the drop in fans attending both of the region’s major football stadia can be attributed to the economic downturn in the area. Last week, the Journal reported "the region’s dole queue increased by 13,000 to 129,000 people" within the space of just a couple of months at the end of 2010. The numbers are frightening, and the fact that both the regions clubs have seen a similar percentage of attendees lost only serves to add weight to the belief that we are seeing an effect of a region-wide problem, not one specific to Sunderland AFC. But we can’t just assume that only the recently jobless have been forced to make cuts, including football, from their budgets. How many now live in uncertainty regarding their job security and feel it would be irresponsible to their families to commit to a full season worth of football at this time? How many who have previously been devoted match-goers have been forced to leave the region in search of continuing employment opportunities? With unemployment particularly high amongst the "lost generation" of 18-24 year olds, how many previously loyal fans have reached the point where they are physically no longer up to it, without many being able to take their place? Is it really hard to believe that just 1 in 10 of Sunderland’s previous crowds are being affected some way by the current economic climate? Sunderland fans deserved the benefit of the doubt given the ambiguity of the figures. The game has changed too, of course, and the sterile environment and unbalanced competition of modern football simply isn’t to everyone’s taste. That’s just the reality.
The objective here isn’t to dismiss entirely the impact of games being easily available to watch on the internet and in pubs, but to ask the question whether the severity of the problem justifies Quinn’s bulldozer approach to grabbing headlines. Even if the problem exists in the kind of numbers that Quinn claims, surely it is a battle that can be fought without the need for publicly questioning the loyalty and passion of the Sunderland fans. Quinn has never struggled to make friends and inspire with his words, so perhaps the failure to win over those in the pubs suggests that they are not there to be won. Perhaps they are the people who were always in the pubs, and always will be, regardless. Surely these few people are not worth unleashing what has become a constant and needlessly aggressive bombardment of words and disdain upon those who have faithfully embraced his "vision" for years. He may not being pulling the trigger himself, but he is very deliberately handing the headline writers the shells.
For years, the Sunderland fans have almost embarrassingly out-performed their team. Just about every club in the same kind of attendance bracket as us has enjoyed regular European football and at least an occasional whiff of silverware, while our fans have been watching poor teams, second tier football, and even the odd national humiliation. They have all had their period of investment and growth at some point or another, just as we are now, but whilst their support has been earned through sustained success on the pitch, Niall Quinn has 40,000 people right now who have proven their loyalty and passion does not need to be coerced with success and prestige. It is offered unconditionally. Now, when there has been only a mere suggestion that some relative form of tangible success is within grasp, for the club to turn to us and openly question whether WE deserve THEM is callous and almost cruel, as is happily dragging our name through the mud for some cheap yet impactful headlines. Quinn would surely be better served redirecting his energies to devising and putting into practice methods to entice people into the ground, not attempting to shame, bully, and threaten them into it. The biggest enticement is football itself, and Quinn would do well to not get too ahead of himself regarding that. Yes, the squad on paper has some real quality, but as we all know football is played on grass, not paper, and for all its promise this squad has failed to deliver an eye-catching cup run or bring European football within the grasp of would-be attendees. Until then, Quinn’s lament seems premature, largely contrived, and very much misguided.
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I agree with the above article.I also think that the general public is falling out of love with football,high wages and unatmospheric stadiums dont help,The Budesliga is thriving due to avg ticket prices at 19 euros and avg att at 42,00.
Standing should be brought back in one end “Home End” thus creating the atmosphere and reducing ticket prices to a acceptable level.
by Dany Dougherty on Feb 21, 2011 2:04 PM GMT reply actions
I can’t agree with much of the above; it’s trundling out the same old defensive “when we are threatened” stuff.
Quinn has huge a responsibility to a huge number of people to deliver, be it to Ellis Short in return for his investment and loans, the rest of the board and the commerical guys, and investors / sponsors in general, and not forgetting us the fans to fund the big signings every single one of us want. The club are trying all it can to deliver value across the board and ticket / season ticket prices and our world class stadium reflect this. Gates are dropping, fact. But just because the rest of the premiership attendances are down does not mean we should sit on our hands and accept it. Strong words are sometimes needed, and rather than reading the headlines about despising SAFC fans and getting upset, maybe people should get into the real detail and understand the debate and the real reasons for it.
Without bums on seats, the big signing will stop sooner or later, FACT, and so they should if administration is not to become a threat. The article is correct in that there are a plethora of reasons for non attendance, and Quinn is dead right to go out rattle a few cages. If you don’t like being challenged, then that’s your call. I’d much rather have a chairman who pushes the envelope with people in order to try and get results, than someone who sits on his arse and be content with the yo-yo club mentality.
It appears just too many people just don’t get what the Club are trying to do here, which is sad. Hopefully Quinn’s on the road events will help with the message.
Bob Murray era anyone?
Rob
by Rob on Feb 21, 2011 3:15 PM GMT up reply actions
Gates dropping is indeed a, ahem, “FACT” but that is not in contention. Facts only tell us what IS happening, but not why it is. Quinn has launched an astonishing gambit, without even making an attempt to get his own facts straight, on a premise that is entirely unproven and for which there is very little supporting evidence. Specifically that the “why” in this case that can explain the dropping gates is that people are choosing, through apathy, to leave the SoL and watch in pubs instead. To risk the outward perception of the club based on what is pure speculation, in my opinion, is not acceptable. If he was convinced then he could have found a way to question it and draw attention to it without risking damaging misinterpretations from the press.
I am sure that the economic factors at play now were not expected when the club came to their initial expectations and so they need to adjust them accordingly. But at the very least, the club should remember that they have not actually delivered anything yet. Certainly nothing yet that we haven’t seen before. A decent squad full of promise, but that is all they have given us. The loyal fanbase they have is, quite frankly, beyond the wildest dreams of any club with such a shocking record as ours, yet they are taking it for granted and telling us it isn’t good enough.
Frankly, if Quinn can’t “rattle a few cages” WITHOUT risking the outward perception of the fans then he shouldn’t be doing it. Because, as you say yourself, he has a responsibility to the fans. Fair play to him for picking his battle and good luck to him in it, but he should have selected his weapon considerably more carefully.
by MG on Feb 21, 2011 4:05 PM GMT up reply actions
Agrée with Rob. Article is rubbish. The fans keep saying bring us success and we’ll come back. Bring us big stars and we’ll come bak.
Well we now have relative success and we’ve broken our transfer record twice in the last 2 years.
For fans who want the reputation of unconditional support for their team not to turn up even when their conditions are met is poor.
Not criticising those who do show or those who genuinely can’t afford just thunk Quinn has a right to call people to arms and to expect a response.
One point Rob. I can’t jump on the anti Bob Murray bandwagon. Murray did great things for the club with his own money and at his risk. He didn’t get it all right but he put his heart and soul into the club. And when he saw it wasn’t gonna happen for him he did everything he could to transfer to NQ and Drumville as reasonably as possible.
by Stuart on Feb 21, 2011 4:16 PM GMT reply actions
They haven’t brought us “success”. So far they have brought us a 13th placed finish. That is NOT success. Breaking transfer records? So what? That isn’t success either, it is just ambition, and we have had that before too.
And what about conditions? Our fanbase have never issued any. We have shown unnaturally high levels of unconditional loyalty for years. The club has had more record breakingly bad seasons in the last 10 years than it has had trophies in the last 70 years. Prestige and success has never been a factor for SAFC fans so why claim it is a “condition” we are demanding now?
by MG on Feb 21, 2011 4:30 PM GMT reply actions
Stuart,
Don’t get me wrong, I had a lot of time for Bob especially as he’s left us the Stadium legacy, but the under investment in the teams at that time left us between a rock and a hard place.
At least now we have the investment from Short, we just need every single strand to pull together, whether, it be sponsors, commercial, owner or fans. The commerical income is down and questions have to be asked about that too.
Rob
by Rob on Feb 21, 2011 4:31 PM GMT reply actions
Understtod Rob and I take your point. I just get wound up by people who are very good at spending other peoples money.
Just to close the circle on this discussion I would highlight that Ellis Short put £25 mill into the club and all he gets from fans in response to the attendance argument is “well now you need to cut ticket prices” or well we still haven’t achieved success. It seems that getting into 6 th or 7 th isn’t good enough. And before MG makes the point that we might not finish there he might like to consider Quinns point that the chNces of staying there would be much enhanced with full houses every week.
by Stuart on Feb 21, 2011 5:12 PM GMT reply actions
Thing is Stuart, Ellis Short is not here on some labour of love for the club and it’s fans/ He is a business man, a highly successful business man, and it is either money he will be either after a decent return, which if he wants, he will get, or some sporting success. Either way, it will be irrespective of the fans. And once again, Quinn’s assertion that we are better on the pitch with full houses is just once again presenting speculation as fact. There is no direct corrolation at all. We were hardly great in the derby game, for example. Perhaps if we DID give a good show of ourselves in front of the bigger crowds when we got them it would encourage more floaters back. I’d wager it would do a darn sight more to persuade them to come back than bullying, nagging, and shaming them in the press, anyway.
by MG on Feb 21, 2011 6:05 PM GMT reply actions
Well written article. Statistics tell a more factual, and accurate story than speculation. I follow the lads home & away, have done pre seasons in Canada, USA, Belgium, Holland, Ireland and others, and want ‘success’ as much as any other supporter. I’d love bigger crowds there with me, but economically it’s tough and almost all clubs are down on numbers – I’d prefer Quinny to tempt the missing supporters back rather than his current efforts.
As MG says, we have not seen any ‘success’ yet – improvement, yes, but no sign of success; we have also not really ‘entertained’ either, four of our six home wins have been 1-0 I think, hardly the stuff to get fans flooding in, and we have lost to each of the promoted sides. I also think our largest attendances have witnessed a 0-2 loss to Blackpool, and the pathetic draw against the skunks.
We have some tremendous support, up there with the best in the country, but whilst a mid table finish will be a welcome change to flirting with relegation, coupled with the dreadful showing in the Cups it hardly will go down as a great successful season. Ultimately, success & attractive football puts bums on seats – we’ve all been sold the dream before, but to get the missing 5-10k into the SoL they will need to see delivery this time.
by Mike on Feb 23, 2011 9:32 PM GMT reply actions
I haven’t been able to attend regularly since 2006 due to financial constraints which, if anything, have become more serious over the last year. I see myself as one of the missing thousands and I would dearly love to have a season ticket and attend more matches, but it really is that or the kids’ birthdays.
This puts me squarely in the bracket of fans Mr Quinn wants back and I have to say I feel a bit put out by the big stick method being employed. I agree with thearticle above that he’s not realised the reality of the current economic downturn and is putting too much emphasis on sitting in pubs watching TV.
The argument about spending money in pubs instead of the ground also rankles – I managed five pints during the England v Germany match at a cost of £15 (normally I might have one beer per half). To drink the cost of a matchday ticket would be nine pints in ninety minutes – not impossible but surely not the norm either.
I know my views will be different from hardcore fans, but as one of the “fairweather brigade” I’ve lost some respect for the big man.
(He’s still a god though, just a bit tarnished)
by Chunk on Feb 24, 2011 1:16 PM GMT reply actions

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